Pinned Unit Rebalancing

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    • Unit Rebalancing

      Hi,

      I've started with the Rebalancing of the units. This rebalancing will be done with an eye to the new combat system with modifiers and I want to share my first thoughts with you.



      You can find out how to read this with this example:
      Darwin have a Multiplier of 1.5 against Unit 5 ( Colonization Ship ) and against the defending Units 1 ( Light Laser Tower ) an multiplier of 2.5, against unit 2 ( Laser Tower ) multiplier of 3.8 and against unit 3 ( EMP Launcher ) multiplier 2.6 ...

      Colors:
      red: Designated anti defense units
      yellow: special Units ( Colonization, Espionage )
      blue: Transport Ships
      green: Combat Probe, fast ship to take out some special units. Can be "blocked" properly by Transport ship.

      Some plans for the units. After the rebalancing, only 3 Units will have a lot Cargo Space. This will be "Trading Ship", "Transporter" and "Noah" .

      The "Trading Ship"
      It will be a very fast ship, with an very very thin armor. Cargo Capacity will be 25.000 and Speed 500.000! Attack will stay at 1 and Armor will be reduced to 10. So a combat probe is able to take out 6 of this very fast trading ships, when there aren't a "Transporter" to block the "Combat Probes".

      The "Transporter"
      This ship is a lot slower than the "Trading Ship". But the base Cargo Capacity will be increased to 75.000. The tank will be reduced to 1.000, what's still enough to tank 10 to 15 Combat Probes. The Base Speed of this Transporter will be increased from 4500 to 10.000.

      The "Noah"
      The "Noah" will be a heavy Transport Ship. It will have a base Cargo Capacity of 250.000 but it will be slowed down to the Speed of an Sentih to an ( adjusted ) velocity of 5.000 .. Also the bonus research to speed up this unit will be changed to the research of the Sentih, to get both in one line.

      The Cargo capacity of all other units will be reduced to an amount, that there is enough space to carry fuel to move from 1:1:1 to 50:50:255 ..
      So for example the Cargo Capacity of the Sentih will be reduced from previously 210.000 to now 5.000..

      The "Combat Probe"
      This Probe is designed to take out some special Units of the enemy. Its the only unit with a modification against himself. So its possible to take out enemy combat probes with your own probes. The speed will be reduced from current 500.000.000.000 to 250.000.000.000, whats still a way faster than the Espionage Probe.

      A small warning before reading the next unit change.. Don't cry.. All units will be changed ;) Just because it will sound like a big Nerf, it won't be a Nerf.. It still will be a very powerful weapon.

      Sentih Changes
      The cost of the sentih will change. Iron costs will be increased from 40.000 to 100.000, Lutinum Costs will be reduced from 650.000 to 400.000. H2 costs will remain with 250.000 ...
      Build time of Sentih will be reduced from 975.000 to 775.000 .. Because the amount of needed resources will be reduced, the points for one Sentih will be reduced from 5.226 to 3.666 ..
      The base Attack value will be doubled to 60.000. Defense Value will be reduced dramatically to 70.000 to fit better with the new combat system. As mentioned before, the Cargo Capacity will be reduced from 210.000 to 5.000, also to prevent, that the Sentih will be the only used ship in the game. Speed will be increased slightly from 4.050 to 5.000 and the H2 Consumption will be reduced from 160 to 150.

      That's it for now. The other units, how they was balanced will be published soon.

      .: Update 1 - Propulsion Benefit Changes :.
      At the moment all units have "Combustion Drive" or "Ion Propulsion" as speed benefit, as it was wished some years ago. :-/
      I think that's a bit odd and boring, so I'll bring it in line with the unit rebalancing with the designated propulsion researches.

      Combustion Drive
      • Schakal
      • Renegade
      • Darwin
      • Espionage Probe
      • Trading Ship
      Ion Propulsion
      • Raider
      • Colonization Ship
      • Stealth Bomber
      • Spit
      • Combat Probe
      Space Curvature Drive
      • Tjuger
      • Cougar
      • Transporter
      • Longeagle V
      Warp Drive
      • Noah
      • Longeagle X
      • Sentih
    • The new combat system won't be completely like in S4K, but it will be nearly the same. The attack order will be sorted by the modifiers ...
      That means for example that the Sentih will primary the "Longeagle X", after that the "Spit".. Than all other units on the field and at least the "Rocket Towers", because against them there is a 0.5 modifier.

      But I've got some complaints, that the "Longeagle X" will be nerfed to much with the modifier of "Sentih" against them. So I'll think about two possibilities ..
      1: removing the modifier of Sentih against "Longeagle X" and add some other for the Sentih.
      2: Give the "Longeagle X" a better defense and use it as a blocking unit against "Sentih" and "Stealth Bombers", with adjusting the modifiers of the Stealth Bomber a bit. ( First thought: mod against LeX 2.1, Plasma Tower 2.2, Rocket Tower 2.0, EMP Launcher 1.8 )

      I prefer the 2nd option ;)
    • I'm gl;ad to hear it. In Space4k the modifiers were Sentih>LeX>LeV and in my opinion was one of the primary reasons why nobody used other unit than Sentih (and the occasional bomber). Who will build a unit when there is one more powerful + modifiers against it? It was the case of LeV against LeX and LeX against Sentih, I hope those modifiers change and it is one of our concerns (as far as it goes on our alliance). The modifiers make a bit more sense between defence and attacking and lower tier units against top tier units just like in your option 2 xD
      Praetor Fenix - Andromeda - 05/12/2014
      Vito Benito - Chicago - 12/07/2014 - Retired
    • Ok, revised it a bit so here's an overworked version.



      new color purple: move able Blocking / Defense Units .. They will have an heavy armor, but only a very weak attack ..

      For this I've promoted the ships "Longeagle V" and "Longeagle X"

      Longeagle V
      - block Darwin
      - block Spit

      Longeagle X
      - block Sentih
      - block Stealth Bomber

      The other units and their missions:
      Schakal
      This ship is good against "Tjuger" and can take out enemy "Noahs"

      Renegade
      With their modifier, its good against "Stealth Bomber" and "Cougars". So its possible focus this ships.

      Raider
      Is good against "Trading Ships" and "Transporter", but also has a slight bonus against "Darwin" and "Combat Probes"

      Tjuger
      Useful to take out the enemy "Spit" faster, while they are blocked by "Longeagle V", before they'll deal damage against Sentih.

      Cougar
      Can focus enemy "Noah" and "Plasma Towers"

      Spit
      Good against "Sentih" and "Rocket Towers" but can be blocked by "Longeagle V"

      So every Unit should have a useful mission :)
      Its not the final version yet. Just lets talk about this and give some input :)
    • Looks a lot better, really.

      The only thing I could imagine (might make it too complicated though) are more options to compete with others (Sorry, I just don't find suitable words in English right now ^^). It could be quite nice if the new modifiers allow different methods to succeed in a fight, not just one chain of ships like Sentih > LEX > LEV > Cougar... So Troops differently Mixed have different effects in combat.

      I like the second table, but I'm afraid that there is "the" best strategy everybody will follow though.
    • ​yes i think too 2 option is better, but i have a question when this update be in game? one day more and i have sentih, but now is bigger cost, and i can't build it because this is not good business


      That's right. It could be unfair.

      The cost of the sentih will change. Iron costs will be increased from 40.000 to 100.000, Lutinum Costs will be reduced from 650.000 to 400.000. H2 costs will remain with 250.000 ...Build time of Sentih will be reduced from 975.000 to 775.000 .. Because the amount of needed resources will be reduced, the points for one Sentih will be reduced from 5.226 to 3.666.​


      In my opinion you can change time/ cost, but u haven't a lot of time. I can't imagine this situation:
      [for example] I built 2 sentihs today (first on the sever), great, but... Cost/ time can be changed and tomorrow another player can build the same ships [sentihs] for less than I.
      I dont agree. It's a nonsense.

      I dont' agree with changes during the game, so I think: costs, time should be the same. Always.
      U should think about CR, because it's very important [now].

      Modifiers? Sounds good.
      Eloi, Eloi lama sabachthani?
    • The combat system and index need rework, not just modifiers...they need to "more" reward the attacker, since here are not much players and its not cheap/fast to attack someone. Ravenc needs to do something to "force" people to attack more, so its becomes overall more fun for all of us becouse right now you have famers with small army just for farming, you have turtles/economy guys just building economy, and you have point collectors who build ships just for points and "look good" on highscore. So from my point, ravenc needs to push this in an "agressive" mode whre attacking its better then point collecting/farming( not in the long run) and doing economy for years.

      In short, make this even more a "war" game...make players in possition that they WANT TO ATTACK, becouse they gain from it.

      Also some other things, but farmers like myself meybe wont find it great. This game doesent have much players, and we all know how much you play and farm thats how good you will be, so meybr limit that like Ogame did with lets say 10-12 max simultaneus attacks, so we limit farming, and we give more "casula" gamers a chance.

      We all know that econmy is the most important thing here, even more then attacking becouse you have people that build for years their economies and dont attack, so attack should be the focal point of this game and should push you or make you in a possition you want t attack becouse you are gonna benefit from it.
      [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/jV1WIIN.jpg]
      [DT] DREAM TEAM
    • The Server 1 Andromeda Internacional server had been requested by alot of people... well all those that are not German mostl that is over 100.
      In a perfect world the server should of been released with all the changes but this was not possible and ravenc had informed that changes would be done slowly.

      Anyway getting back to the main subject.
      Personaly i do not know much about U4K,S4K or OGame, i have never liked much this game but i dont need to know about combat system to Administrate the game :D Luckly thats RaVencs job to know how it all works hehehe

      In my opinion comparing to the old modifier system from vendetta (that is different to U4K) it looks pretty balanced.
      In my opinion its very hard to get a modifier server perfect on the first attempt so id recomend that this first idea ravenc has allready given should be implemented in the test server, that way we can actually play arround and see what should be changed.

      I also agree with @Starscream the most important aspect of the game is economy, there are some that dedicate there troops to farm for resources and there are those that preffer to invest resources in buildings instead of troops to get the resources.
      Personaly i think that at the moment we should not lose track and wait for the combat system since it should encourage players to attack more.

      Once the combat system is finnished maybe it would be good to see a reward system for attacking or maybe some system that if you are the attack and win the battle you will get 30% resources from your total troops lost (Just an example that would mean less resources are lost...)
      But lets got one step at a time and stay with the subject that is the Combat System ;)

      Looking good so far..
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      Allways remember, follow the rules, respect others and most important have FUN! :thumbsup:
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    • the balancing will show if its playable during the next few month after implementing.
      what I would like to know is how you calculate the costs of fuel (h2), the distance from a to b and how are techs calculated on the basic values?
      basic value*(techlevel/techlevel^2)? are there different values for techs, e.g. shield tech is more expensive and more special, so it gets a factor of 1,5 in comparrison to the normal armor tech? if not, could there be factors like that, depending on how "hard" it is to tech these better techs?

      ob und was das balancing in zukunft taugt kann sowieso nur das spielen in den darauf folgenden monaten zeigen. das ist ja nur eine grobe einlotung, so wie es damals auch bei s4k und dw der fall war, wo allerdings die feinkustierung gefehlt hat - welche man hier dann verfolgen sollte nachdem die spieler ihren senf zu dem system in der praxis gegeben haben.
      was mich interessieren würde (aufgrund der ganzen änderungen zum verbrauch und geschwindigkeiten etc. und weil ich mich nie länger damit befasst habe), wie wird der verbrauch von h2 auf einer distanz x, die distanz selbst von a nach b und der einfluss von forschungen auf einheiten jegleicher art eigentlich berechnet?
      nach dem motto: basiswert*(stufe der forschung/stufe der foschung^2) so wie es bei den gebs der fall ist?
      gibt es unterschiedliche gewichtungen für forschungen bspw. faktoren die "bessere" forshcungen stärker hervorheben wie die schildtechnik ggü- der erweiterten schiffspanzerung? wäre sowas eine option?
    • I think it was ogame that created a unit that picked up "salvage resources" from the opponents destroyed units. You would send this unit with your attack, and would collect like 10% of the resources destroyed by your troops. this at least gives you a reason to attack. it however makes it so attacks with 0 loss are a bigger deal too, as attacks can net resource gains. It might encourage more bashing of players that are significantly behind, as a way to gain more resources.
    • For Recycler, please create a new thread. That's something we can think about too, but this should be done in an separate thread.

      Just two screenshots to show what i work for at the moment:




      This are the actual values using ingame, to have a Workbase I'll work with. I'm not sure yet if I'll change there a lot.
      The research overview was created mostly for other balancing methods. The (attack & defense ) index value table will change a bit..
      ( For example move "Shielding Technology" from Attack Bonus of Combat Drones to Defense Bonus, and move instead "Explosive Projectiles" from defense bonus to attack bonus.. This makes a lot more sense :D
    • Stealth Bomber look abolutely unbeatable compared to what they cost (They even benefit the most from researches making them stronger and stronger as time goes on). I suppose their strength is counteracted by their consumption, but if people who only want to gather points end up massing up Stealth Bombers it'll be difficult to cost efficiently get rid of them. Massing Renegades to attack into the Stealth Bombers would work in small numbers (if the modifiers stayed the same as in the earlier screenshots), but the lack of advantagous researches for the Renegade coupled with the high consumption will stop that strategy very soon.

      One day you'll say "Why is everyone dead?
      Why didn't we just do what Kim Jong Il said?"