Ill make my only warning to the GO team. Get you shit together, and follow your own damn rules, or this server dies before it even kicks off. Bans that happened today are backed by changes in rules, or rules that dont exist in many cases, and are unacceptable. There was a rule that told us clearly that pushing is ALLOWED to lower point players, and that is a rule that we all built strategy around. If the GO of this server cannot have the decency of keeping to their own damn rules, we will go somewhere else to play our games and waste our lives. We communicated multiple times with Stv3n to be sure we were understanding these rules in particular correctly. Bans that happen after the fact without talk, are unacceptable

FIX YOUR SHIT!

Stv3N - 19:47:42
As you may see below, many rules were broken, feel lucky im giving a Verbal Warning
Next time, try to communicate appropriately

10. - The serious provocations and/or insulting other board members are forbidden and may lead to its author be warned.

12. - Discussions about warnings and bans are not allowed,
threads with this subjects are immediately closed and the insistence on
continuing to open this kind of threads can lead to warnings. Whenever
you want to complain about a warning and/or ban received, you must
contact the person who applied the punishment (by PM or email).

13. - Complaints about Staff members of the board, first it
should be contacted the member in question and then if you still not
satisfied with the answer, you should contact his superior via PM
(private message) or email. The section 'Acknowledgements & Criticisms' has its own rules which can be read HERE in more detail.

14. - It is not allowed to use inappropriate language forum; this also applies to words that are self-censored as long as it can be realized its meaning, users can be warned.

23. - For proper functioning between users and game/board Staff, we strictly advise that any case not solved by the directly responsible, it should be passed to his hierarchical superior.

Hey bergholt,

good question, but there is no list or such a thing where you can see this. Situations on the server regularly are observed by the team and suspicious players datas are specificly analyzed.
If we would warn players with this list, they wouldnt continue breaking the rules and the aim is to get the ones who really try to abuse trading / pushing etc.
If the people do "mistakes" and doesnt have a big advantage (and the situation seems not to be "created" on purpose) people receive an ingame-message and are not instantly banned.
This is the only warning you can get, but if the evidence is clear and/or the opinions of the GA/GO are set, there wont be a warning.

CannabisKid:
Thank you for the post. Next time please read the forum-rules, because if we should treat you with respect, please do the same.
It is right, that there need to be changes with the rules, so that even the last player on the server understands what pushing means and how it can be used as an instrument for the game.
If I would have 1000 points and you have 999 points, it is not allowed for me to send you the costs of a colonization ship.
In relation to the rules I should be able to do so, but the situation for both of us nearly is the same and you would have a big advantage from receiving those res.
So, if I would send you those resources which you could pay back in 48 hours (in which way ever), this would be trading and in this case allowed - everyone is happy.
But if you dont pay back the res within 8 days and then it is pushing and the usage in form of coloships is an advantage.
So you get a 3 days ban and should be happy it is only 3 days and not 7 days which would be the next optionn in case of those big advantages.

You see. Those situations are not easy to handle and there are only 2 ways in the end.

Say people they did something wrong (and if it was a huge advantage resulting from this, hear other players flaming why player xyz has already the 123th planet)
Ban people (and hear them or allymembers flaming about how shitty the team / rules / game is)

In both cases the team tries to give its best and reacts to the happenings on the server.

Best regards,
flair

YOUR RULES DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THIS SITUATION! A ban in this place is absolutely unacceptable. We conversed with Stv3n multiple times before in order to be sure we are complying with the rules. This ban is absolutely out of line...

The rules do not discuss who has a better economy, or more planets, or even how close the points are. IT SAYS THAT PUSHING A PLAYER IN LOWER POINTS IS ALLOWED!!!

Your bans simply and clearly violate this rule. And you are making up excuses for why, that are based on rules you would like put in place. This server has been open only weeks, The people playing have dedicated themselves here. Your inappropriate bans have a large impact, and this action is unacceptable. Im not kidding, if this shit cant get worked out, im not playing your game, and I know many others here wont either. Figure out how to adhere to your own rules...


There is also a third way for you to handle this, one that i was told specifically was the stance of GOs here by Stv3n. That you communicate with the party involved and ask them to repay all resources immediately. Again, you did not do this. The fact is that I have PMs ingame with Stv3n showing this conversation, and these exact circumstances. Your ban directly violates what we were told directly from him on MULTIPLE LEVELS

§3 Pushing

Definition / Prohibition:

Pushing means to send resources to another account without evidence of an immediate return of resources. This is only allowed when the account being "pushed" has a lesser total game score than the account sending the resources. Pushing does not only cover the simple sending of resources, but it has a few EXAMPLES that are also considered:

- intentional accumulation of resources in one (or more) building(s) for later retrieval by another account using (multiple) attacks;
- additional means and possibilities where one account gets resources without sending back some.

In-game extortion of resources is not permitted where it violates the pushing rule. Any players attempting to extort resources from other players may be banned. Loaning of resources is not permitted.

The official resources trade rate is: 10:5:1 - 10 iron to 5 lutinum to 1 hydrogen

If a player decides to use other resources trade rate he assumes the responsibility of taking the risk of that option be evaluated by a Game Administrator or Game Operator and be considered Pushing.

In a case of resources trades it is allowed to proceed to the return service of the negotiated resources until 48 hours after the beginning of the trade. Meaning that if the player 1 sends resources to the player 2, the player 2 has to send back resources in return to the player 1 in the period of 48 hours after the beginning of the transportation of the resources from the player 1 to the player 2.

A Game Operator should always be informed and give permission sought for movement of resources from a lower ranked player to a higher ranked player without an immediate return service.

These are your posted rules. Your opinions regarding it being fair or not, are irrelevant. You have clearly posted rules for us to follow. To institute more strict rules and ban people without ACTUALLY addressing the RULES is not ok. These bans should be uplifted immediately.

Stv3N - 19:53:23
After the previous post i can not make an exception
Warned: Disregard of Board rules

So if i get it right? IF someone follows rules but is "too" god for rest and develop alot faster then others, you need him to "slow" down, so you ban him becouse XY people complain that somene is a cheater becouse he is better them them? I mean WTF??

Thank you for addressing the bans, unfortunately now we have two players who have been coerced into vmode.

I think the entire server would appreciate if you would be more dilligent about COMMUNICATION before banning at this point in the game. Bans during this time are significant, much more so than later in the game, and should be a LAST effort to handle an issue

Regardless, thank you for adhering to the posted rules on the board in this circumstance

bergholt wrote:

flair if you send an in-game message then you also could make a list of players that have got it, and what time they got it, so they players leaders could see that some of there members are in trouble, and then could talk with them.

about the rule of pushing, the rule say that you can send to a player with lower total points than your self, but if the person has 1 point lesser than you, then you still could send resources to the player without trading because you are higher than him.

and if the rule was as you say it is, then there should have been standing in the rules that you can't push a player so the player get more points than your self.

so the hole problem is that the rules are not precise enough and can be understand in two ways, and as Realazio have told me, then is what you say and what stv3n have told him not the same thing so you should talk together, and be clear about the rules, and then admit that the rules not was clear enough about pushing this time and then remove the bans and give the players another chance.

The idea is ok and would be better for the alliance leaders. But why should everyone see how the situation of specific players looks like. If you do a mistake or worse in school / university / job, would you like to see your name on a list where every classmate / student / employee can see what youve done or that youve done something? This is about privacy and wont be implemented in future. But good idea anyway!

And yes, you are right about the rules. They are not precise enough atm. So decisions are taken by evidences. And apart from the rules, this is what counts. We do not change any rules to treat players in a bad way, otherwise most of the server would have already been banned. But in serious cases, and cases close to the edge (such as this one) we analyze the datas and take decisions by them.

Cheers flair

In GO Tool the points of the players at the time of the mission wasn't visible, so Stv3n and flair only was able to check a pushing issue with the points that was shown at the time when they checked this issue. When flair checked the points, it already was switched and the player who've got the resources had more points than the sender.

I've added now the visibility of the points at the time of the mission to the GO-Tool, so this shouldn't happen again.

Thank you sooooo much for joining in here RavenC. We greatly appreciate the leadership to address these issues. We spoke with Stv3n specifically ingame many times to be sure we understood these rules correctly, and these bans are very frustrating when accompanied by excuses that dont fit into the rules at all (1000 point player cannot push a 999 point player... which your rules say they can.)

Oh also one thing to add i think if players banned for multi accounting then 3 days or so is not acceptable.

If the rules are so closely watched for pushing then i believe multi accounting should be banned for longer as this is a direct attempt to cheat that cannot be mistaked. Especially if there is movement between those accounts regularly.

I understand warnings as such but i believe minimum 2 weeks on such a ban as 3 days teaches them nothing but to work out a better way to cheat.

Just my 2 pence worth for the people playing fairly

Do not push yourself noobs and then you will not cry about bans

Stv3N - 20:02:51
Careful with accusations & language.
Pushing is not always illegal.

Sorry everyone, that iv been offline these days and have not been able to attend this situation but i will do it now, starting with this post.
I will start with the subject of this thread.

bergholt wrote:

s there so a place where we can see if we have got a warning before we get banned.

The Team has an Internal Warnings Table that we update and check frequently, this table is not public because its not very nice that everyone can see why you have been warned and in case of a misunderstanding the community would still flag you as a cheater.
These warnings are for team knowledge ONLY and the user involved.

Once the Support Tab is implemented (no release date) hopefully it will indicate to each user his open cases with verbal warnings, it may be also possible to allow Capo & SubCapo to view all cases of there members, this is more a suggestion and will be added to #114 (Support tab).

In the following days we the team will discuss the idea of allowing Alliance Leaders to be informed on what members of there alliance have received a warning.

Following subject: Bans

As far as i can see, @RaVenC has revoked revoked bans for Pushing, it looks like there has been a bad communication problem because i have been offline, i would like to apologize and if there is anything still needing to be solved contact me via PM.

I understand the frustration of a alliance member to get banned when everything was approved but i see there has been abuse of language in some posts, therefor because this subject is closed im going to review carefully every post and take necessary actions, there is a correct way to communicate in every situation.

Best Regards
[GA]Stv3N

Thread reviewed and i will now reopen in case someone would like to continue the subject (Warnings Table)
Please avoid off topic and try to communicate in an appropriate manner.

Stubigman wrote:

Oh also one thing to add i think if players banned for multi accounting then 3 days or so is not acceptable.

If the rules are so closely watched for pushing then i believe multi accounting should be banned for longer as this is a direct attempt to cheat that cannot be mistaked. Especially if there is movement between those accounts regularly.

I understand warnings as such but i believe minimum 2 weeks on such a ban as 3 days teaches them nothing but to work out a better way to cheat.

Just my 2 pence worth for the people playing fairly

I had forgotten to mention this.
When someone is banned for Multi accounting, this is not allways a multi account, in some cases this is just a trade from user with same IP.
This is not allowed as a precaution, this is considered normaly Multi IP Violation.

I may be late but do think a support tab that includes a players ability to see warnings would be a great way to....

Firstly advise someone that their actions COULD be a breach of the rules and is being looked into
This could inform, and one would hope all accidental breaches of the rules would cease when the person knows its against the rules (after all not everyone reads the rules (silly i know but true))

Secondly someone deliberately breaking the rules will know and be warned their actions have been noticed and if they dont change their ways there will be repercussions.

Thirdly when someone ignores the warnings and advice of the GO's and GA's they will not have a leg to stand on as they will have been warned do X and its against the rules and yet continued to do X and therefore they have no one to blame but themselves.

I know that may not stop all complaints on the board but one would hope it would also clearly show a player found to be violating the rules how they can appeal any punishment and reduce misunderstandings.

That being said such a system does have its downside in that it also warns a cheater to change what they are doing as its clear the GA's GO's can see what you are doing.
But what system is perfect (except mine :P)